Democratic Gov. Rod Blagojevich and Republican rival Judy Baar Topinka argued Tuesday over who could best answer voters’ concerns about ethics and how to pay for schools and health care.
Topinka contended voters “did not elect this governor king” to make public policy decisions unilaterally without the active involvement of state lawmakers. Blagojevich said that Topinka must find it “liberating” to “just make things up” in attacking his first-term record.
Sitting side-by-side in the wood-paneled Tribune editorial board room in what is likely to be their last face-to-face meeting before the Nov. 7 election, Blagojevich sought to rebut ethical questions that have clouded his first term, while Topinka tried to make the case that she has the vision to be governor.
But each candidate left voters with more questions to ponder after a 101-minute forum in which Blagojevich stayed largely on message by focusing on his list of accomplishments and Topinka responded with sarcasm and accusations of scandal.
Blagojevich said he didn’t know whether his family received additional checks from a longtime friend who wrote one for $1,500 in 2003 to one of the governor’s daughters after the friend’s wife got a state job. Questioned about federal and state investigations into allegations of wrongdoing involving hiring, contracting and fundraising by his administration, Blagojevich repeatedly would not answer whether he had hired a criminal defense attorney.
“I have all the lawyers that a governor in the modern world ought to have,” Blagojevich said.
Topinka, the three-term state treasurer, repeatedly responded to questions about how she would improve the state by criticizing Blagojevich’s failures and accusing him of being an absentee governor. She maintained her office does not issue no-bid contracts, but she struggled to explain that some no-bid contracts are, in fact, awarded.
“We bid absolutely everything, including what we don’t have to bid,” Topinka said. Later, she said, “We bid everything, unless, again, we have these artistic and professional contracts that we have, which are usually for a temporary service.”
Both candidates maintained their proposals for generating new funding for public schools were realistic despite lukewarm enthusiasm by lawmakers for Blagojevich’s plan to sell or lease the state lottery as well as for Topinka’s call for a land-based Chicago casino. The candidates said they didn’t have backup plans.
The two disagreed about the state’s fiscal health, the future of government-subsidized health-care programs for the poor and elderly and the need for more gun-control laws.
Blagojevich maintained he has moved the state forward without raising state taxes, while Topinka contended his borrowing has added $16 billion to the state’s debt.
Topinka said she supported a continuation of the governor’s All Kids state-subsidized medical insurance plan for children, but with a $100,000 family income eligibility cap. Blagojevich said Topinka’s plan was unfair and would essentially dismantle the program.
The governor also said Topinka was parroting the National Rifle Association through her opposition to a ban on assault weapons at the expense of young gun victims. Topinka said current gun laws were sufficient if they were enforced and said regardless of the law, “you are going to have bad people who do bad things.”
Both agreed that a 10-year electric utility rate freeze, scheduled to expire Jan. 1, should be extended, though they said they don’t want to see ComEd go into bankruptcy as a result.
But the discussion of pay-to-play politics–and its resulting demoralizing impact on voters–was dominant.
At one point, Blagojevich criticized the media’s coverage of political debates, because “you’ll talk about ethics because that’s all you’ll write about. But how about issues that really matter to people?” Asked later if he believes people don’t care about ethics, the governor said “ethics matter,” but “when we try to talk about substance and talk about issues that actually impact people’s lives on a daily basis, [there’s] very little coverage or discussion on that.”
Asked if he had retained criminal defense counsel as a result of the ongoing federal criminal investigation into allegations of administration wrongdoing, Blagojevich said he had “all the appropriate lawyers” that a governor should have. Asked for a yes-or-no answer, Blagojevich demurred, saying, “I just don’t want to get involved in those kinds of issues, because there’s sensitivity to a lot of it.”
The governor also tried to put an end to future questions from reporters when he was asked whether federal agents had questioned him about the $1,500 check that a Blagojevich daughter got from Michael Ascaridis in 2003. Ascaridis, a longtime friend of the governor, wrote the check after his wife, Beverly Ascaridis, had gotten a state job only weeks before.
“What I’m not going to do is engage in a whole bunch of responding to rumor, partisan accusations, leaks and innuendoes,” Blagojevich said. “I want to set a record here that I’m not going to engage in that. And I’m not going to respond to those questions, except to say `no’ to your question.”
Asked if either of his daughters had received similar checks from anybody else, Blagojevich said, “Look, other than family members and a close personal friend like that, the answer is no. OK?”
Blagojevich said he believed “a lot of politics [was] being played” in the controversy over his acceptance of the check from Ascaridis.
Topinka likewise blamed politics for Blagojevich’s criticism that her treasurer’s office issued more than 300 no-bid contracts, including nearly 100 that went to her campaign donors.
But after first maintaining that she did not award no-bid contracts, she said those that were awarded by her office were for less than $10,000 and involved one-time temporary personal services.
Noting that Topinka has criticized him for no-bid contracts, Blagojevich said Topinka was not telling the truth in denying that she awards such contracts and said she has gotten $260,000 in donations from vendors who got no-bid work from the treasurer’s office.
“Now, I am not saying what she is doing is illegal or inappropriate,” Blagojevich said. “It’s not for me to decide that. But she’s got to be factual and truthful, especially when she throws it at me.”
Symbolizing the fundamental strategies of their campaigns, Blagojevich said he had earnestly tried to reform the scandal-tarred political legacy of the state last personified by his predecessor, George Ryan, while Topinka contended she has upheld the public’s trust.
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“We have made real changes and strides in ethics,” the governor said. “It’s not perfect. There are all kinds of things going around, but that is sort of the nature of politics, especially when you open a can of worms and are interested in trying to get things done the right way.”
Topinka said her quarter-century in public service qualified her for governor.
“I’ve served, I think, admirably in the House and the Senate,” she said. “For 12 years, I’ve respectfully handled the state treasurer’s office and a $56 billion budget with good investments, sound investments, a clean office. No attacks by the auditor general, attorney general, U.S. attorney, FBI. I mean, that’s an office with money. You can get in some real mischief with that.”
The in-person give-and-take between the candidates is likely the last of the general election campaign after both candidates reached an impasse earlier this week in negotiations over future debates.
The Blagojevich campaign agreed to participate in the editorial board session on the condition that it not be videotaped. Both candidates agreed on Tuesday to allow the session to be audiotaped for broadcast and Internet distribution.
The third candidate on next month’s election ballot, Green Party candidate Richard Whitney, was not invited to participate in the editorial board meeting. The Tribune editorial board said Whitney had been clear in his positions in answering questionnaires sent to the candidates and wanted to further question Blagojevich and Topinka.
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Candidates spar on major campaign issues
THE ISSUE
The state budget
BLAGOJEVICH SAYS:
“We have made a difference in people’s lives, and we have done it in a responsible way. … And that’s why I am determined not to raise taxes again.”
TOPINKA SAYS:
” He did have a problem when he came in. But he said it was taken care of. Not only was it not taken care of, he added to it.”
THE ISSUE
Funding education with more gambling dollars
BLAGOJEVICH SAYS:
“Her whole plan is predicated on the empty promise of an expansion of gambling. … We put $3.8 billion into our schools. That is more than any governor has ever done in Illinois history. “
TOPINKA SAYS:
Of her own plan to bring a land-based casino to Chicago, Topinka said, “There will ultimately be support in the legislature for it.” Of Blagojevich’s plan to lease the state lottery she said, “There is no way this lottery issue is going to pass.”
THE ISSUE
Should U.S. House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) resign because of the page scandal?
BLAGOJEVICH SAYS:
“I don’t know enough about what Speaker Hastert knew or didn’t know to make that decision. … It’s been a pleasure having a speaker from Illinois, even a member of the other party. … If Hastert weren’t the speaker, I’d call my congressman, Rahm [Emanuel], and I’d know he’d be able to get it done for us. “
TOPINKA SAYS:
” If it is proven out that there were multiple people who were involved here or anyone who knew about this and did not protect children, then I think they should consider resignation. … Don’t kid yourself. Rahm Emanuel or anybody else does not equal the speaker of the House.”
THE ISSUE
Ethics in state government
BLAGOJEVICH SAYS:
“I threatened a veto in the fall of 2003 if we didn’t get real, meaningful, landmark ethics legislation. So we have inspector generals … and they are doing things and finding things even that can be embarrassing and politically harmful to me, but that’s what their job is.”
TOPINKA SAYS:
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“We cannot belie the fact that the attorney general, the U.S. attorney, the auditor general are continually investigating this office. “
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Listen to the entire exchange between Rod Blagojevich and Judy Baar Topinka before the Tribune editorial board at chicagotribune.com